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Anna Rollins's avatar

Wow! I wanted to restack this entire thing. Wow! It is so incredible to read your story, Amy, the absurdity and heartbreak of it all — and what a gift to be in a place to believe that you belong to God and to yourself, not to a man, or a very rigid behavioral script

I am so, so grateful you are recommending Famished to your community. I hope it helps readers feel seen and find healing. Thank you for everything ❤️

Zach W. Lambert's avatar

A woman at our church walked up to me after I finished preaching today with her copy of Famished in-hand raving about how much she loved it!

Anna Rollins's avatar

Wow! This is incredible! It makes me want to cry. Thank you for sharing this with me ❤️

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thank you for writing Famished! Your bravery (and talent!) are paving the way for conversations that need to be had. Grateful to have met you and to be able to share your work.

Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg's avatar

Amy ~ this made me tear up. I raised teenagers during this time, and although I didn't learn much about the purity culture (they weren't talking about what they were learning at youth group), I did get the message early on that my husband was the spiritual leader of our family and that I needed to submit...even to emotional abuse. He wasn't a "leader" type, so I always felt "ripped off," which probably led to some of his later adulterous affairs and drinking. Much later, I learned that my daughter was in a youth group where the youth pastor had raped one of the boys, and another one had raped one of the girls. The church brought the victims into a forced "forgiveness" session, and the leader did not even lose his job. If the victim could not forgive, then it was the victim who was sinning. I feel guilt to this day for not knowing, for trusting people with my children without overseeing things myself. Thank God, like you, Amy, they grew up and are loving and successful in their relationships. They know the truth, and the truth has set them free.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thank you, Linda. You are always so kind and supportive in your responses. I could have absolutely included personality types in my list of reasons marriages don't work! Not that personalities excuse poor/abusive behavior (they very clearly do not), but they often do create tension that so often leads to abusive and/or unhealthy behavior within a marriage that doesn't follow the fundamentalist script. Have you read Jen Hatmaker's recent memoir, Awake? It talks about this at length. Highly recommend.

I have also seen this forgiveness narrative for victims. I know someone who, after disclosing abuse they had suffered, was forced to "confess" it in front of the church. It is disgusting and abusive, especially when forced upon a lay person by someone in a position of religious authority. I'm glad that you and your kids have made it through!

Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg's avatar

Thanks, Amy. Yes! I have read Awake and can't recommend it enough! Recently, I saw a post on Substack from a Christian talking about how Awake was Jen's excuse to say "I" did this myself, while she (the writer) always gives credit to Jesus and hasn't left her church. I had just finished watching one of Jen Hatmaker's Advent videos...where she gently led me to a closer relationship with Jesus (who she mentioned many times). I commented on this woman's post. I validated her thoughts about her experience with divorce and her church AND pointed out that Jen is clearly leaning on Jesus in her life as well. Her book opened my eyes even more to how much I ignored my own cognitive dissonance.

m.e.'s avatar

I think that "spiritual leader" message was so damaging - it certainly has been in our relationship. For years I sat back (not using my own brain and gifts) waiting for him to "take the lead" - gosh, it seems so ridiculous to me now. The Making on Biblical Womanhood was the book that gave me permission to think differently. Your situation sounds awful - I'm sorry, and I'm also grateful to hear your kids ended up coming out of things okay.

Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg's avatar

Thanks Megan. In my mind, it was unfair to both of us (in that case), but I got remarried...to a guy who ended up on staff at our church, and he was narcissistic and abusive. At that church I was told I had to obey him and not see my eldest grown son since he didn't like him. I was told to pray that he would change his mind. Instead, I saw my son every day on my lunch break.

m.e.'s avatar

That's wild, and so not cool! I'm glad you had the courage to maintain a relationship with your son.

And I totally agree about it being unfair to both partners. "Spiritual leadership" is not something my husband was even interested or gifted in. Ugh. I hate how certain Christian media and culture tried to lay one ideal blueprint over all marriages.

Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg's avatar

Yes... There was a lot of damage done, and so far, that part has mainly gone unacknowledged. I have been really glad to see the purity culture being called out!

Lindsey DeHart's avatar

Thank you for your vulnerability and willingness to share. This is an important topic. I was also a teenager during the 90’s purity culture. I was surprised to hear other women talk about the negative outcomes of purity culture a few years ago. I followed the rules and it lead to unnecessary struggles in early marriage. Who am I kidding, it was years of unnecessary grief. Only by God’s grace and determination did we stay married and start to discover the truth. I can completely relate to covering up my bra straps and believing my body was something to control rather than enjoy. It has been really eye opening to see our girls grow up with a different mentality.

Linda Lochridge Hoenigsberg's avatar

Eye opening and refreshing. Thanks, Lindsey!

LGBTQ+ Christian Poet's avatar

I resonated with this. It was shoved down my throat that if men lusted and hurt me, it was my fault... I never got to the point you were though. I didn't center my life around a future someone... Wanting to have sex never even crossed my mind. I was quite happy with that until I got in the head space that I'm supposed to want a husband, that I'm supposed to want sex, to want to get married and I became ashamed I did not... I did finally find people I wanted to build a life with, but they were women... Which was apparently a bigger sin!

I've deconstructed a lot and part of that was through the help of you and Zach's church and substacks so thank you.

Amy Lambert's avatar

That anti-LGBTQ+ messaging is just as strong, and I’m so sorry you got that plus the patriarchal marriage/purity culture stuff! Thank you for your kind words. We so appreciate your input at Public Theology 💛

jlp's avatar

I was raised just prior to the popularity of the Purity Culture but the messaging I received was very similar. I had accepted that some of the "values" that had been preached to me would never reconcile with the reality of making a marriage healthy. Kind of like putting a square peg in a round hole.

You have explained a lifetime of guilt and frustration and given me a new perspective. Thank you.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Yes! It would be one thing if the messaging was harmful but somehow worked, but it doesn’t. I’m glad the article helped but I’m so very sorry that you have experienced similar hurt.

Zach W. Lambert's avatar

I'm so sorry you were put through these same terrible things!

Sasha Irish's avatar

How about the internal logic of "if God let me have feelings for him, he must be my future husband"? Or was I the only one who was that crazy?

Amy Lambert's avatar

I've heard language like this before! Especially in churches where marriage relationships are consistently likened to Christ's relationship with the church (which is in scripture but has been extrapolated too far within this metaphor (in my opinion)) and men are then placed in the role of savior to their wives. You are not crazy! It's a logical jump and you were encouraged to get there. I'm so sorry!

Nicole Pritchard's avatar

Thank you for sharing your story, Amy. It is heartbreaking and so very relatable. One thing I have been processing over the years is how, as a teenager, I was taught by my church to sign a pledge to commit to purity, wear a ring, and advertise the movement - an evangelist for purity that also signaled my sexual status to everyone who knew me. Not only did this set me up to believe I was a trophy to be won, but it also, in my opinion, made me an obvious target for sexual assault as I was SO naive and everyone knew it by design.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Oh Nicole. You are exactly right. We are working hard to make sure our sons know anatomical language, that no one sees or touches them without permission, that they are always accounted for, etc. so they know what is happening and how to stand up for themselves if they find themselves in a dangerous situation with a predator. It makes perfect sense that malicious adults would see those who came out of the purity culture movement as prey, but you are spot on that this can continue after childhood (and even within marriage). Thank you for making this point 💛

Renu Yadav's avatar

Loved reading this, Amy! Although I’m not a Christian but was raised in society with similar thought process. I had to deal with the shame of getting a divorce and being with more than one person because I wasn’t pure anymore. Reading this helped me see how deeply those beliefs get internalised, and how much unlearning and self-compassion it takes to move forward.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Grateful for you, Renu! 💛

Zach W. Lambert's avatar

I hate that these terrible ideologies are so widespread. Thank you for sharing this, Renu!

Melissa  Zornes's avatar

I’m several years older but was a teenager right in the height of the True Love Waits movement. I wore a promise ring until my wedding day…raised to believe that sex before marriage was the worst sin, and I just KNEW if I did I’d face immediate consequences even though so many of my friends did not. I knew it would be me that would be publicly shamed. For this, among many reasons, I was looking for my husband at 16. And while I did, in fact, meet him at that age, and have been blessed with almost 27 years together, our journey has not been easy. Unlike you, my mom was aware and perpetuated these messages…so much so that when I shared that our honeymoon was not amazing (as I’d been taught it would be if we waited), I was told we should seek immediate counseling or our marriage wouldn’t last. Apparently pain equaled me being a failure of a wife and the cause of our marriage being in danger. Even after all of these years, I continue to work through so much of this, especially now that I am the breadwinner while my husband is the one who is the “domestic engineer.” Our relationship is the complete opposite of everything that I was taught during those impressionable years…I’m so grateful to the Lord that the man I married has been so patient and understanding as I worked through reframing the way I see relationships, sexuality, and God’s design for our marriage. He’s walked alongside me through this—I know many women are not as fortunate.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Oh Melissa. I’m so so sorry that you were getting similar messaging at home, too, and that you struggled with physical pain after waiting for sex after marriage. It’s such a shame that we were all sold a lie— and it’s truly a miracle that we somehow figured it out along the way! I, too, thank God for my husband, who loves me (and I, him) despite the ways we don’t fit the mold of conservative gender roles. Our relationship has improved significantly since we accepted who we are, our strengths and weaknesses, and our ability to partner together for the sake of goodness. Thank you for your comment! I really appreciate you sharing your story.

Jeanie Linton's avatar

This was well done! Thank you!

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thank you, Jeanie!

Morgan Strehlow's avatar

Thanks for talking about this and bringing awareness to the silent suffering of so many marriages as we navigate the aftermath and unintended consequences of our upbringing in purity culture. So much of this is my story, too.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thanks, Morgan 💛 grateful to have met you and share this space with you

Victoria Cull's avatar

Thank you Amy. Although my daughters were not raised in a purity culture many of these things will, I'm sure,resonate with them. I love your writing. Thank you for it --and sending blessings.

Amy Lambert's avatar

That is so kind. Thank you. I hope your daughters find it supportive and encouraging.

Benjamin Tindall's avatar

I came upon this essay and all I can say is thank you. This is so well said and I resonate with so much of this from a male, shy, scared, gender-confused, hyper-religious, purity culture 90s/00s-teen perspective. I wanted to cry reading this and just again say thank you for putting voice to your experience and letting others sit with it. Again, thank you.

Amy Lambert's avatar

You’re very welcome 💛

Matthew Higgs's avatar

I have an alternate male perspective. I grew up in the Purity Movement and I bought into it. Many of the guys in my youth group had relationships where they would go as far as the girl would let them. This was not me. I bought into the messages that I wasn’t to go too far. That meant keeping my distance. In order to not “go too far” I just kept away. I was scared to not live up to the expectations. I’ve recently learned that this was religious Scrupulosity. I’m beginning to heal.

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thanks for sharing, Matthew. I was definitely in the stay away from all of it camp, too, and then I didn’t know how to act in a healthy way within my dating relationship with my now husband. I’m sorry that you were harmed by this messaging— there is much less info (that I know if) from the male perspective, so I appreciate your comment!

Janelle Nash's avatar

Amy, so much of your story reminded me of my young adult and teen experience. I remember having friends who had waited tell me how painful sex was after marriage. They were so confused because they had “followed God’s will and done everything right.”

While that wasn’t my experience after waiting until marriage, my husband hadn’t waited, and I wasn’t prepared for all the emotions and anxiety that would bring.

A friend of mine who is a youth group leader told me that she’s going through an Elizabeth Elliott book with the young girls. My instant reaction was “no, no, no,” to stop perpetuating these outdated and unrealistic expectations for young women. The cycle needs to be broken.

Amy Lambert's avatar

I had the same reaction when I read your comment about Elizabeth Elliott! That makes my stomach hurt. We absolutely need to be a part of breaking the cycle, not perpetuating it.

Belema's avatar

How do we break the cycle while still holding to Christian ethics? It seems they are sadly connected.

I am reading Sheila Gregoire books on sex in Christian culture and marriage.

I have heard of Elisabeth but not read her books.

Mariah | ☕️🎧🧸's avatar

As someone who grew up being taught to wait until marriage outside the bubble of evangelical Christianity and purity culture, I feel qualified to provide some insight into this!

Growing up, my parents taught me premarital sex was no more a sin than lying, getting drunk, cheating, stealing, etc. By this, I mean that premarital sex is undeniably wrong in the eyes of God, but it’s certainly not the worst infraction one can commit, nor does falling into sexual sin mean you’re immediately stripped of your salvation and condemned to hell.

As such, sexual sin (as with all other sins) can be rectified through confession, repentance, and Christ’s forgiveness, as well as making a conscious effort to avoid future temptation(s) so as not to continually have premarital sex again and again (much like how repenting for getting drunk doesn’t mean you should keep doing it over and over again—instead, learn from your mistake, and go and sin no more).

Consequently, during my teen and early adult years, this mindset really helped me see sexual desire as 1) a personal responsibility that we need to exercise self discipline over to flee from while we’re single, 2) a healthy desire given unto us by God that we shouldn’t be ashamed of, but rather good stewards of so we don’t indulge the desires of our flesh until we’re married, and 3) a sin—that if committed—is not irreconcilable, but rather one that’s been paid for by Christ’s blood and can be forgiven through His grace and mercy.

Overall, my parents’ approach managed to avoid a lot of the misogynistic rhetoric that purity culture often perpetuates, while simultaneously still adhering to the importance of obeying God’s commands and honoring our bodies righteously.

Ella Mantle's avatar

Oh my god — I feel like I just read a transcript of my thought processes and feelings over the past couple months. It’s been a difficult and sometimes lonely process of deconstruction. I’m still figuring out a lot of things. But this was very cathartic and comforting. Thank you for your words and vulnerability.

Amy Lambert's avatar

I’m sorry that you also understand, but glad that this resonated for you. Sending you lots of love and bravery for the journey! Reach out if you need recommendations 💛

Ella Mantle's avatar

Actually, I would love some recommendations for some books by feminist theologians that could give me more context for this and that offer different frameworks for reading the Bible. Preferably not inerrantists?

Amy Lambert's avatar

From my husband:

1. Shameless by Nadia Bolz-Weber

2. Kristin Kobe DuMez’s upcoming Live Laugh Love should cover a lot of this

3. Beth Allison Barr’s The Making of Biblical Womanhood

4. Communion by bell hooks

5. Sexuality and the Black Church by Kelly Brown Douglas

Ella Mantle's avatar

Thank you! I’ll look into these!

Leslie's avatar

Yes Amy and Anna, I had a bit different situation but the same voices. In the 70’s it was free love, alcohol and drugs. But salvation in a fundamental church at 16, made me an oddity. We didn’t have love waits, we had nothing but confusion, no one dared to talk about it.

Although, I gained respect by the adults and became the mother’s

cry “why can’t you be like her!” Which didn’t help my popularity or dates.

In college we were told “if you’re not ready for marriage, don’t date!”

I was 24 before I dated, I was so unprepared for relationships and finding out what I needed, that I married so we could have sex. A disastrous marriage, ending with the death of our child at his hand.

More marriages each with authoritative husbands, abuse and fear.

It was all I knew.

I’m grateful that I made it through the guilt and shame brought my my church.

I pray for my grandchildren, in a world out there that teaches guilt and shame to girls and empowerment to boys.

Keep up the good fight!

Amy Lambert's avatar

Thank you, Leslie. I’m so glad you made it out!